Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father. Thomas, Penny claims, is the father of Arthur. Is Thomas Wayne Jokers father? aimed at teachers and librarians. Within the world of Joker, the line between reality and delusion is delicately toed throughout the movie's two-hour runtime. Hes a good man. And that's before Arthur finds out what the letter says. Dr. Thomas Wayne was the father of Bruce Wayne and husband of Martha Wayne. In Joker, Thomas Wayne (Batman's father) and Penny Fleck (Joker's mother) are key characters. The Joker's chaos starts a movement in Gotham City, creating a war of the haves and have-nots with clown-mask-wearing rioters everywhere. Arthur found this out when he went to get his medical records/birth certificate from Gotham state hospital. But take that away, and the story still points to Thomas being the father. Whether he actually is Thomas' son, and whether he believes he's Thomas' son or not, the motivation of him feeling rejected by the Wayne family make his motivation to battle an eventual Batman make a ton of sense. The files also contain an adoption record for an unnamed baby boy. The files show that Penny Fleck had been committed to the insane asylum several times due to a delusion that she was Thomas Wayne's secret lover. . There are two possible answers to this question: yes, Thomas Wayne was the father of the kid and had the records manipulated to remove all evidence; no, Penny was really delusional and thought she was sleeping with Thomas Wayne, a man she clearly was infatuated with, when in fact she was sleeping with some . When he opens a letter she's addressed to him, he sees a handwritten note that describes Arthur as Thomas' son, suggesting that the Joker and Batman are half brothers. Spoilers ahead! The go-to source for comic book and superhero movie fans. This leads Arthur to confront Thomas Wayne directly in the restroom at a gala event. After Dent's son and daughter are saved, Batman confronts Joker [6] about their son's death. In Superman/Batman #50, Bruce Wayne discovers his father's diary which reveals that before the arrival of Kal-El, Thomas Wayne spotted a strange object falling on Earth. Although Bruce made them leave the theatre because he feared the bats in the opera this doesn't mean that he is responsible for his parent's deaths. Are Batman and Joker siblings? comedic Lets Play videos. Not because he's a particularly upstanding personhe's presented as the antagonist, and a quasi-villain of the moviebut when Arthur goes to the Wayne estate and meets Bruce and, eventually, Alfred, even Alfred says that Penny was unhinged. Here, Thomas tells him the real story, that Penny was delusional and that Arthur . Hearst Magazine Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved. He was portrayed by Brett Cullen . This is later revealed to be all inside his head. Is Thomas Wayne jokers dad? This seems particularly likely when one considers how impossible (even in a hellhole like Gotham City) it would have been for Penny Fleck to have adopted a baby as an unmarried woman with a history of mental illness or to have kept Arthur if the reports of his being abused were true. Bruce Wayne's deceased father Thomas Wayne is generally portrayed as a martyr for justice, but 2019's Joker and 2022's The Batman both change that. Whether Arthur is actually a son of the Wayne family or not, Cullen makes a compelling point about Arthur, and his motivation toward Batman down the line. It proposes that the Joker and Batman's relationship is more twisted and connected than initially believed. FinanceBuzz Nov 15 Promoted Thomas Wayne is the main antagonist of the 2019 Oscar and Golden Lion-winning psychological thriller film Joker, the first installment of the newly launched DC Black film series. Is Thomas Wayne Arthur Fleck's father? Obviously later when he visits arkham state hospital she dies. No one knows who Jokers parents are. You have been warned! And the answer is yes. Joaquin Phoenix and director Todd Phillips respond to critics: Whatever your takes on this cascade of revelations, it's not the only view Joker offers of Thomas Wayne as a dad. Obviously people talk about the post card signed TW, and speculate that he needs a cover up during his run for Mayor. Considering the movie's angle on Thomas, it seems likely. Batman confronts him with the knowledge that Chill killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. It seems probable then that Wayne could have made arrangements to have Penny Fleck falsely committed after discovering she was pregnant and faked adoption papers in a bid to throw off any request for a blood test years later. He also maintains a personal blog called My Geeky Geeky Ways He was a well-known surgeon, philanthropist and CEO of Wayne Enterprises (which he inherited from his own father, after his father made patients on on industrial technology, which he invested in real estate making the family billions). He murders his mother in a rage and embraces his Joker persona. Joquin Phoenix's Joker doesn't kill Bruce Wayne's parents outright, but he does create a lawless situation that basically causes it to happen. In that issue, Batman discovers that Joe Chill, the small-time crime boss he Unable to leave the apartment, Penny is obsessed with the mail, asking every day if there's a letter from her "former employer." He is the wealthy CEO of Wayne Enterprises and was in the running for mayor of Gotham City. This places the audience inside of Arthur's head as they too are left unable to tell fantasy from reality and are left confused in the wake of a world that has seemingly gone mad. The wealthy cad, impregnating a servant, denying paternity, locking her up to make it go away, letting them starve. We advise not watching this video until you've gotten at least as far as the end of the main quest Forging Destiny. Contents 1 History 1.1 Knight of Vengeance 1.2 The Button work for Screen Rant, Matt is currently the Editor In Chief of Related:DC's Joker Movie Hints At Another Batman Villain. Driven to vengeance by the death of his son at the hands of a mugger, he now slaughters criminals across the multiverse, trying to erase his world and restore his son to life. Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father . Worse, she was locked away after CPS found the infant Arthur nearly beaten to death by Penny, who freaked out whenever he cried. yeah from the files from Arkham mental hospital, penny fleck's (joker's mom) files said that joker was an abandoned child but some say that because Thomas Wayne is a big shot within the city of Gotham that he was able to pull strings and get those papers within the files to falsely reflect that. But is that really true? Jack Napier, of course becomes The Joker years later after an accident at Axis Chemicals (in the 1989 Tim Burton adaptation). Known as a font of comic book Its gut-wrenching.". to write for over a dozen websites, including 411 Brett Cullen portrays Thomas Wayne in the 2019 film Joker. Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father. He is portrayed by Brett Cullen. Advertisement Brett Cullen portrays Thomas Wayne in the 2019 film Joker. New Evidence? She kidnaps Harvey Dent 's son and daughter. Arthur Fleck is led to believe that Thomas Wayne may be his birth father, despite the hospital files and other evidence he finds that suggests otherwise. You Penny is writing to Thomas to beg for money because Arthur is his son. A key character in Joker is Thomas Wayne (Batman's father) and Penny Fleck (Joker's mother). Our product picks are editor-tested, expert-approved. 2022 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Alec Baldwin has been cast as Batman's father Thomas Wayne in "Joker," an individual with knowledge of the project tells TheWrap. Thomas Wayne is Jokers dad? Flying, No Tights a graphic literature and anime review site Before Arthur goes on stage to do his standup, a joke is said about men treating sex like parking. Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father. The mystery of who is Jokers father hangs over much of the film. One of the film's major "revelations" that fans are left wondering about is the true parentage of Arthur Fleck, the man who goes on to become the. Like his DC Comics counterpart, he is a wealthy Gotham socialite and the father of Bruce Wayne (Batman). Combine this with her stating that Thomas made her sign some documents to keep "their love" a secret (i.e. During the events of the film, many Gotham . The movie wants you to guess for yourself who's telling the truth. The movie depicts Batman's father alongside the young. Instead, Cullen stepped in and did an admirable job. Kabooooom.com and writes reviews for No Both. Nexus and The Cult of Nobody. Joker kills James Gordon after she tricks Gordon into shooting Harvey's daughter (disguised as the Joker). She said in a flashback that Thomas' wealth, power, and influence helped to produce the claim and paperwork that Arthur was adopted. It turns out that Joaquin Phoenix did have one reservation about Joker - namely the movie including Bruce Wayne's father Thomas. But when he heads to Wayne manor and introduces himself, first to a young Bruce and then to the butler Alfred, Arthur gets a different story. When Uther first met Igraine (also spelled Igrayne), she was married. Register for free or log in to build your IGN game library. One of Joker's biggest mysteries involves a revelation about Thomas Wayne's secret life and something he did before he got married and fathered Bruce. No, he was adopted, and his mother allowed her boyfriend at the time to abuse him physically and maybe sexually. | Total Conspiracy. Though initially confined to the universe, Thomas was brought to Earth Prime by the Reverse-Flash. Penny Fleck was mentally ill - this is a reference to Thomas not wanting people to know that he had relations with a her. Did Joker kill Batman's parents 1989? Evan is the culture editor for Mens Health, with bylines in The New York Times, MTV News, Brooklyn Magazine, and VICE. The truth behind their relationship remains open to . All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. Due to our protagonist Arthur's mental instability and inability to perceive events around him accurately, it is unclear just how much ofJoker takes place inside Arthur's head and what events truly happen. According to Penny, Arthur was born of an affair she had with Thomas when she worked for him. When Arthur . Tim Burton's version of Batman has Jack Napier as the shooter When he finally meets Thomas, he's greeted with condemnation and a swift punch. No one's going to know the answer for sure, but we've got some ideas. Heavy stuff, but also . - Thomas Wayne. This leads Arthur to Arkham State Hospital, where he steals his mother's medical records and seemingly confirms Wayne's story. Gotham season 6 is not happening! 2. He then threatens Arthur never to come near Bruce again, or he'll kill him. The Batman (real name Thomas Wayne) is a ruthless and exasperated vigilante in the Flashpoint timeline. Did Joker kill Batman's parents 1989? Was Thomas Wayne actually jokers dad? devoted towards acting, role-playing, movie-riffing and sarcasm. But he's not related to Bruce. Joker is Warner Bros Pictures most successful Batman film, grossing $335.5 million at the box office domestically, and landing 11 nominations at the 2020 Academy Awards. The photo is signed with the initials T.W. Spoiler warning: If you haven't yet seen Joker and plan on doing so, now's your chance to stop reading. Is Thomas Wayne mayor in Joker? What did the letter say that was so important? She refused King Uther Pendragon. Toward the end of the movie, this version of the Joker has several Joker minions, and a guy in a Joker mask kills Thomas and Martha Wayne, in front of 10-year-old Bruce Wayne. In most Batman films, Thomas is a misty water-colored memory in the corner of Bruce's mind, a good man killed too soon. In Joker, Thomas Wayne (Batman's father) and Penny Fleck (Joker's mother) are key characters. Is Thomas Wayne The Joker's dad? No one knows who Arthur's father is, or his mother either. We've provided additional spoiler warnings for each region throughout the video as well.00:00 - Intro00:29 - MUSPHELHEIM COLLECTIBLES00:42 - Musphelheim Nornir Chest 101:50 - Musphelheim Legendary Chest: Divine Ashes01:50 - Musphelheim Raven #102:25 - Musphelheime Rune Read (Lore): Valhalla Rises02:54 - Musphelheim Raven #203:19 - Musphelheim Lore Scrolle: Gna's Journal04:03 - HELHEIM COLLECTIBLES04:17 - Helheim Legendary Chest #1: Bow Ability (Falling Sky)04:46 - Helheim Legendary Chest #2: Runic Summon (Wrath of the Wolf)05:20 - Helheim Raven #105:48 - Helheim Rune Read (Lore): Prayer to Hraesvelgr06:13 - Helheim Legendary Chest #3: Tame the Beast (Blades Heavy Runic Attack)07:49 - Helheim Legendary Chest #4: Thrust of 1000 Soldiers (Spear Light Runic Attack)08:33 - Helheim Legendary Chest #5: Onslaught Shield09:09 - Helheim Lore Marker: Hraesvelgr09:09 - Helheim Raven #210:26 - NIFLHEIM COLLECTIBLES10:47 - Niflheim Legendary Chest: Runic Summon (Bitter Squirrel)11:14 - Niflheim Nornir Chest11:14 - Relic: Motsognir's Call11:14 - Niflheim Legendary Chest: Nocked Proficiency (Companion Accessory)For more on Kratos' latest adventure, check out our full God of War Ragnarok walkthrough on IGN @ www.ign.com/wikis/god-of-war-ragnarok. At the end of the day, there's more evidence that Thomas is telling the truth. Joker. In the trailer for the new Joker film we see Arthur taking care of his ailing mother. But Joker takes a different view. One of the biggest mysteries at the heart of the story of Joker is whether or not Thomas Wayne truly is Arthur Fleck's father.While the movie presents this idea as a delusion that Arthur adopts from his equally unbalanced mother, there is some evidence to suggest that Penny Fleck was telling the truth about a love affair with the famous billionaire and . Spoilers for Joker follow within, as Thomas Wayne actor Brett Cullen reveals his take on whether Joker is really Batman's brother. The studios haven't yet selected someone to portray Bruce Wayne, although we know that Baldwin . In some versions of the mythology he studied to become a surgeon with Dr. Leslie . - Thomas Wayne. But perhaps the movie's biggest twist is the possible connection between Arthur and Bruce Wayne, as in his arch-nemesis Batman. There's A Lot Of Clues, Thomas Wayne truly is Arthur Fleck's father, DC's Joker Movie Hints At Another Batman Villain, Something From Tiffanys Review: Holiday Rom-Com Lacks Chemistry & A Good Script, Spoiler Alert Review: Parsons & Aldridge Exude Warmth In Engaging Romantic Drama, Blanquita Review: A Fascinating Protagonist Leads Murky, Compelling Drama, Robert Pattinson Looks Creepy In Parasite Director's New Movie Teaser, Champions Trailer Showcases Woody Harrelson's Basketball Comeback, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. People on Twitter have felt a similar way after seeing the movie. According to his mother, she and Thomas were in love, but he was married, so they had to hide their relationship. Is Thomas Wayne Jokers dad? The most we know about her past is that she used to work for Thomas Wayne, aka Bruce. "The idea that the Joker is an illegitimate child that didn't get anything from the Wayne family is a very compelling motivation for his character's hatred," Cullen tells The Hollywood Reporter. The Joker origin movie has found its Thomas Wayne. Did Batman ever find his parents killer? **SPOILER ALERT**These regions don't unlock until well into Ragnarok's story. . Joaquin Phoenix Was Against Batman's Dad Thomas Wayne Being in Joker Joaquin Phoenix Was Against Batman's Dad Thomas Wayne Being in Joker By Jonathan Fuge Published Sep 12, 2019. Arthur, donning a red clown nose, pays a visit to Wayne Manor and performs an impromptu magic show for an enthralled young Bruce Wayne (played by Dante Pereira-Olson).4 ott 2019 making up The Arrowverse as well as his Brett Cullen portrays Thomas Wayne in the 2019 film Joker. The most convincing piece of physical evidence is a photo of his mother that Arthur handles before going to appear on the Murray Franklin show. Arthur's father is said to be Thomas, according toPenny. One of the key challenges in interpreting the plot of Joker lies in the problem of the Unreliable Narrator. Is Thomas Wayne Joker's dad? Batman foils the Joker's plan, however, and pursues him and Vale into the cathedral, eventually finding them at the top level. In Joker, Thomas Wayne (Batman's father) and Penny Fleck (Joker's mother) are key characters. Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father. history trivia, he has delivered lectures on the history of American JOKER Thomas Wayne LIE Explained! He got his start writing for the The movie never explicitly makes clear whether that's true or not. In the Joker film, the character is suggested to have an origin unlike any. The wealthy cad, impregnating a servant, denying paternity, locking her up to make it go away, letting. Who is the Joker's father? Since then he has gone on On antimatter Earth, Owlman was now Thomas Wayne Jr., the older brother of that reality's Bruce Wayne. The internet is a big place, but I so far haven't seen anyone post or talk about the most compelling two pieces of evidence IMO that Thomas Wayne is the real father of Arthur Fleck. Thomas and Martha Wayne known best as Bruce . But that's not the Thomas presented here. The movie wants you to guess for yourself who's telling the truth. When Arthur finally confronts his alleged father, Thomas is unnerved, but he too insists there was no relationship with Penny. Uther and Igraine were King Arthur's birth parents. Joe Chill . What little spare time he has is Out of curiosity, Arthur reads one of the letters instead of sending it and learns that his mother is begging Thomas Wayne for help while making reference to "our son." "I was very surprised when I read the twist," he said. He is the father of Bruce Wayne ( Batman ), and husband of Martha Wayne as well as the paternal grandfather of Damian Wayne. In Joker, Thomas Wayne (Batman's father) and Penny Fleck (Joker's mother) are key characters. Thomas Wayne is a billionaire and Gotham City mayoral candidate in the 2019 film Joker. . In the Joker, is Arthur's dad really Thomas Wayne? Of those nominations, the film only took home two, but one was in the high profile Best Actor category. What is the deeper secret behind the relationship between Joker Arthur Fleck and Thomas Wayne? In Alan Moore and Brian Bollard's seminal graphic novel Batman: The Killing Joke, the Joker paralyzed Barbara by shooting her through the spine and drove her father to near insanity through . One of the subplots that pushes Arthur over the edge involves his mother's repeatedly sending letters to billionaire and mayoral candidate Thomas Wayne, on the grounds that he might help them financially because he is a good man. that Thomas Wayne is 100% the Joker's father The internet is a big place, but I so far haven't seen anyone post or talk about the most compelling two pieces of evidence IMO that Thomas Wayne is the real father of Arthur Fleck. In his hunt for the truth, Arthur goes to Arkham and uncovers a terrible reality. While the movie presents this idea as a delusion that Arthur adopts from his equally unbalanced mother, there is some evidence to suggest that Penny Fleck was telling the truth about a love affair with the famous billionaire and that he fathered her son. Arthurs disbelief his mother will get a response is due to that former employer being Thomas Wayne, the father of Bruce. There's a movie called Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox where flash goes back in time and causes a butterfly effect, one of the changes made is that Bruce Wayne is killed in the alleyway and Thomas and Martha survive, this causes Thomas to become that universes batman and Martha to become that universes joker. Notably, viewers are led to believe that Arthur Fleck (.css-16acfp5{-webkit-text-decoration:underline;text-decoration:underline;text-decoration-thickness:0.125rem;text-decoration-color:#d2232e;text-underline-offset:0.25rem;color:inherit;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}.css-16acfp5:hover{color:#000;text-decoration-color:border-link-body-hover;background-color:yellow;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}Joaquin Phoenix), who becomes the titular Joker, is in a romantic relationship with his neighbor Sophie Dumond, played by Zazie Beetz. In Detective Comics #33 (Nov. ), Wayne is introduced. One of the mysteries in director Todd Phillips' Joker is whether Arthur Fleck really is the son of Thomas Wayne as his mother Penny Fleck claimed. The movie wants you to guess. One of Joker's biggest mysteries involves a revelation about Thomas Wayne's secret life and something he did before he got married and fathered Bruce. Could this terrible man be Jokers dad? Consider. Matt Morrison has been writing about comics since before the word Batman's dad Thomas Wayne is a very different kind of guy in the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie. Unfortunately, no. She's written day after day, asking for help and money. The Dead Island 2 Showcase begins on December 6 at 12PM PT, 2PM ET, 8PM GMT, and 7AM AEDT. One of the biggest mysteries at the heart of the story of Jokeris whether or not Thomas Wayne truly is Arthur Fleck's father. can follow his adventures on Twitter, @senseistarman. The idea that the Joker is an illegitimate child that didnt get anything from the Wayne family is a very compelling motivation for his characters hatred. Be the first to know what's trending, straight from Elite Daily, This article was originally published on 10.04.19, Marvel's Phase 5 Schedule Has Already Shifted, The New 'Ant-Man 3' Trailer Brings Scott's Story Full Circle, The 'Guardians Of The Galaxy 3' Trailer Gets The Whole Band Back Together, By subscribing to this BDG newsletter, you agree to our. Will there be a Gotham season 6? This movie makes you feel for Arthur, when you see him struggling with his mother. But given the history of the character, it's enough to convince us that's the truthat least for now. the morphing of Joker and The Batman's Thomas Wayne from an almost saintly philanthropist into someone with rougher edges and shadier associates is a perfect reflection of late 2010s-early 2020s . When he played the bathroom scene with Phoenix, he played it as if Thomas Wayne was Arthur's father. And if Thomas isn't outright malicious, he's portrayed as uncaring and conniving towards the rest of Gotham City Wayne violently asserts that he is not Arthur's father as soon as Arthur introduces himself, and point-blank tells Arthur that he was adopted and that Penny Fleck had been committed because of her delusional belief there was something between her and Wayne. Wayne comes across the Joker's parade float during the 200th Anniversary Parade, where the Joker plans to kill thousands of people with his toxin. Alfred confirms Penny worked at Wayne Manor for many years, but she was unstable, and slowly became obsessed with Thomas. Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father. Penny claims that Thomas is actually Arthur's father. Of course, Arthur could just be imagining the details of the medical report to be worse than they really were, but such is the ambiguity that makes Joker such a divisive film. What if when she dies or after its revealed that Thomas was Arthurs biological dad from a one night stand. A gifted surgeon and philanthropist to Gotham City, Wayne inherited the Wayne family fortune after Patrick Wayne. Whatever one thinks of Thomas as a politician, his threats were that of a terrified father, not a man trying to cover his misdeeds. Wanting his son to leave the role of Batman, Thomas set into motion plans to convince . In addition to his Terry McGinnis took over the mantle of Batman after Bruce Wayne retired. Warning: Major spoilers for Joker follow below. Warner Brothers' foray into the Batman universe, Joker, put a new spin on the famous arch-villain. We may earn a commission through links on our site. And shes saying, Go see Thomas Wayne, hell help us. "I went to [Director Todd Phillips] and asked, Are we playing this the way I think were playing this? Who is Arthur's real parents? How did the Waynes get so rich? Is the Joker son of Thomas Wayne? Contents 1 Biography 2 Personality 3 Gallery Batman's dad Thomas Wayne is a very different kind of guy in the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie. What happens to Penny Wayne in the Joker? A famous exposition of the origins of Batman was Batman (which was released in 1939). The truth behind their relationship remains open to interpretation. Wayne recognizes the Joker as the mugger who killed his parents. View complete answer on en.wikipedia.org. At one point, Arthur does visit Arkham State Hospital and reads his mother's file, which says that she adopted him as a child and an abusive boyfriend took advantage of both her and Arthur when he was an infant/toddler. There was no relationship, as far as anyone knew; Penny adopted Arthur as a baby from the local orphanage. Thomas Wayne is one of the three secondary antagonists (alongside Murray Franklin and Randall) of the 2019 film Joker. By the time the film ends, the riot Arthur sets off has claimed the lives of both Thomas Wayne and his wife, setting himself and Bruce on an eventual collision course as Batman and Joker. .css-16fbwkt{display:block;font-family:GraphikBold,Helvetica,Arial,Sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;}@media (any-hover: hover){.css-16fbwkt:hover{color:link-hover;}}@media(max-width: 48rem){.css-16fbwkt{font-size:1.05rem;line-height:1.2;margin-bottom:0.25rem;}}@media(min-width: 40.625rem){.css-16fbwkt{font-size:1.28598rem;line-height:1.2;}}@media(min-width: 48rem){.css-16fbwkt{font-size:1.39461rem;line-height:1.2;margin-bottom:0.5rem;}}@media(min-width: 64rem){.css-16fbwkt{font-size:1.23488rem;line-height:1.3;}}'Yellowstone' Star Turned Down Role of Spider-Man, Will Sharpe Is TV's Most Talked-About Man, Jackie Chan Says 'Rush Hour 4' Is In the Works, Mayim Bialik Speaks Out About Emotional News, Paul Hollywood's Problems With American Desserts, Mike Flanagan Adapting Stephen King's 'Dark Tower', Jonathan Majors Is Jacked in 'Magazine Dreams', Austin Butler Trained for Months for 'Dune: Part, 'Witcher' Boss Breaks Silence on Henry Cavill Exit, 45 Rules the Cast of 'Below Deck' Have to Follow, Jenna Ortega Was 'Intimidated' by Christina Ricci. 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